Tablete (GalaxyTab, XOOM, iPad 2, Playbook, etc)

[tdd70]

Pretul?


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Daca pentru mine era intrebarea, raspunsul este 1650 RON, cam pe la jumatatea lui ianuarie.

[Kingy]

Pretul?

Neah, nu e cazul 

De ani de zile vreau sa trec pe Apple atat ca si computer personal cat si la altele. E ceva care nu se leaga...
Asa cum dau (cam o data la 1-2 ani) 1500e pe un Dell, pot sa dau si pe un Apple. Si imi plac al naibii de mult produsele premium dar in cazul Apple, la telefoane de exemplu, totul se opreste la capitolul design, care-mi place mult. In rest, e din alt film in care eu nu sunt.

Atentie, nu am afirmat nicio clipa Maru Sucks, restul rullz.

[VAXXi]

M-am "lovit" si eu de partea enervanta de multitasking sau prostia cu ferestrele multiple in browser care nu merg simultan la Android dar stiu ca si la alte sisteme de operare e cam la fel.
Sper sa se remedieze chestiile astea pe viitor. Altfel, Android e super ok iar tabletele de la Samsung sunt absolut incantatoare pentru mine.

Multitaskingul nu e enervant, e implementat "mai destept" pentru un device care merge pe baterie. Unele aplicatii sunt prost programate, iar altele nu lucreaza asa cum trebuie. Explicatie gasesti aici, par examplu. Daca prin "ferestre multiple in browser" intelegi taburi (pagini), Chrome pe Android are asa ceva si merg foarte bine.

[Kingy]

Bine de stiut.
Multam de hint.

NU am avut nevoie de multitask dar am vazut si eu cand am pus sa cante o muzica pe iutub si cand am intrat in alta fereastra in brauser, mi-a tras racu si mi-a oprit muzichia 

[Leutz]

@Vaxxi  link-ul spre care faci trimitere explica multitasking-ul limitat (sau inexistent) disponibil pe Android si iOS si necesitatea unei astfel de abordari, indicand in mod subliminal ca ... asta e, altfel nu se poate; si atunci concluzia ta e implementat "mai destept" pentru un device care merge pe baterie pare fireasca si in concordanta cu viziunea lui Steve Jobs: "people don't know what they want until you show it to them."

Iata insa si o discutie care compara variantele "limitate" cu cele "nelimitate". Acum intrebarea e ... care dintre viziuni e "fireasca" si care nu? Si cand zic "firesc" ma gandesc la: satisfactia in utilizare, usurinta utilizarii, intuitivitate, versatilitate, control asupra device-ului ... s.a.m.d.
Eu unul ader la urmatoarea opinie din discutia pe care am citat-o: "It is THE USER (and not THE PHONE) who decides whether to keep something running or to conserve energy."
Si in acelasi timp ma intreb, intrucat toate sunt din categoria "smart(phone)" care sunt de fapt mai smart?

Intrucat link-ul este de pe un forum, s-ar putea sa fie greu de trecut prin toate postarile, asa incat postez mai jos un rezumat (editat) al discutiei cu pricina, pentru a usura citirea:

"Of course this isn't because the OS can't handle multitasking but they chose to disable/restrict it (to at least have a fluid user experience on mediocre hardware). Both on Windows Phone and iOS, the actual operating system is fully multitasking, but there are restrictions on what user-installable background applications are allowed to do (which is very little). The manufacturers' own applications have more freedom (e.g. they can receive/send messages, download web pages). 

In theory, Android allows apps to continue running in the background, but within many severe restrictions. First of all, all background tasks in total cannot take more than some 5-10% of CPU time, which is very little. Any app that uses more than that when switched to the background will get frozen. Also, if the apps already running in the background get close to the limit and you try to switch to the background another one and the limit gets exceeded, the app will be frozen. And the same for the size of operating memory (RAM) used. Thirdly, Android also restricts which functions can be active in the background. If an app does something that isn't allowed to work in the background, it'll be frozen. And so on...
All these Android multitasking restrictions are allegedly meant to reduce power consumption (protect the battery from getting discharged by background tasks left unattended by the user and eating CPU, RAM and energy).

But is it really worth having such limitations? On the N9, all it takes to save energy is to simply remember not to leave some CPU heavy applications running when you don't need them. One look at the Switcher home screen, one tap on the "Close" button and voila. It is THE USER (and not THE PHONE) who decides whether to keep something running or to conserve energy.

So in practice it is nowhere near the flexibility of Maemo or MeeGo.
On the N9 or N950, *any* application can multitask, and *any number* of apps can run simultaneously, with the only limit being free memory and CPU time. You can listen to music while writing an email, and also downloading a large file from the Internet at the same time, having an IM app active in the background, GPS tracking your position and uploading it to some location web service, and so on, and so on.
An important difference is also that on the N9 and N950 apps sent to the background continue to NORMALLY WORK, whereas on the other operating systems they usually get frozen when sent to the background and then un-frozen when brought back to the foreground. This means that on Windows Phone or iOS when you switch to another app, the previous one usually temporarily stops working until you go back to it.
Harmattan also allows running some tasks as daemons - they can run invisibly in the background without the actual application (GUI) being opened all the time. It's useful for things like automatic call recorders, answering machines, apps modifying button functions, etc.
Overall, Maemo and MeeGo are MUCH more flexible when it comes to multitasking. The only thing that the user needs to take into consideration is that with many applications running simultaneously the performance may be affected. iOS appears so smooth to many people mostly because it does not allow running multiple applications or tasks simultaneously (except some built-in apps allowed to do so by the manufacturer), while on Maemo or MeeGo the user is free to run everything he wants but he should be aware that heavy multitasking reduces device's speed/smoothness."

[Kingy]

In cazul asta, de ce cucu nostru avem quadcore, frecvente si parafrecvente la procesoare, etc.
Asta doar ca sa ruleze sistemul de operare si eventual vreo aplicatie?

[VAXXi]

@Vaxxi  link-ul spre care faci trimitere explica multitasking-ul limitat (sau inexistent) disponibil pe Android si iOS si necesitatea unei astfel de abordari, indicand in mod subliminal ca ... asta e, altfel nu se poate; si atunci concluzia ta e implementat "mai destept" pentru un device care merge pe baterie pare fireasca si in concordanta cu viziunea lui Steve Jobs: "people don't know what they want until you show it to them."

Nu e limitat, este foarte existent (Music sau TuneIn lucreaza bine mersi in background, ca sa dau 2 exemple), dar lucreaza altfel decat cel implementat in sisteme de operare desktop. Asa cum zice si-acolo: When a user hits the home button, an app does not immediately enter some thing akin to Suspended mode on iOS. The process associated with an Android app remains in the background and is allowed to do any work it needs to. Apps on Android might use multiple processes, and multiple apps can share a single process. ... The ways Android apps avoid being killed in the background has a parallel on iOS with the limited Background APIs. The BroadcastReceivers component lets apps wake up for a short time to run some task or another, and then shunts it back to a background state. This is useful for location check-ins or file syncing.

Nu sunt sigur, tre' sa verific, dar mi se pare ca (teoretic) tre' sa se intample lucruri diferite atunci cand ai o aplicatie deschisa si apesi pe "home" sau pe "back", "back" este echivalentul iesirii din aplicatie iar "home" este un fel de "las-o in fundal". Cred ca d-aia au implementat si Windows 8 in varianta de tableta cu aplicatii fullscreen - ideea la smartphone/tableta este ca ai o aplicatie principala in prim plan si restu' sunt cetateni de nivelul 2, care nu tre' sa primeasca mai multe resurse decat ai nevoie.

[Kingy]

Pai de ce sa faca asa si sa nu ruleze mai multe aplicatii in acelasi timp?
Cu cunostintele mele de balta in ale computerelor stiam ca procesorul cu mai multe nuclee a aparut fix din nevoia de a executa (procesa) mai multe sarcini simultan.

In mintea mea e asa. Daca am procesor cu 4 nuclee atunci dispozitivul respectiv e capabil sa duca simultan 4 aplicatii.
Stiu, mai e vorba si de memorie si alte alea dar totusi cum e cu multitaskingul la tableta, de care o fi ea, daca atunci cand deschid una mi-o inchide pe anterioara?

[VAXXi]

Pai de ce sa faca asa si sa nu ruleze mai multe aplicatii in acelasi timp?

Pai le ruleaza, da' nu in sensul clasic (adica o aplicatie in fundal ramane "activa" ca serviciu doar daca are cu adevarat nevoie, gen TuneIn/player de muzica/etc. Restul aplicatiilor, care n-au nevoie sa fie permanent active (gen Facebook/email) sunt tinute "la congelator" si activate periodic cat sa-si verifice ce-au nevoie, apoi inapoi la cutiuta. E mult mai eficient asa.

http://www.dollo.ro/2013/03/de-ce-vrea-politia-sa-ne-ia-carnetul-pentru-orice-contraventie/
Cu cunostintele mele de balta in ale computerelor stiam ca procesorul cu mai multe nuclee a aparut fix din nevoia de a executa (procesa) mai multe sarcini simultan.
[/quote]

Da, dar in acelasi timp si motoarele V8 in ziua de azi au tehnologie pentru a dezactiva 2-4 cilindri cand nu e nevoie de ei aplicatii mobile care sa aiba cu adevarat nevoie de randare multithread sunt putine (jocuri de obicei, care insa au GPU). In plus, e greu sa paralelizezi performant si nu se aplica la orice. In practica, se foloseste un core pentru OS/background si un core pentru aplicatia activa, sa zicem. Sau un core pentru OS, un core pentru background, un core pentru aplicatia activa ... la modu' asta.

Stiu, mai e vorba si de memorie si alte alea dar totusi cum e cu multitaskingul la tableta, de care o fi ea, daca atunci cand deschid una mi-o inchide pe anterioara?

Am explicat mai sus. Daca ai avea telefonu' legat permanent la priza, ar putea sa le tina pe toate pornite asa cum poti pe PC. Dar cum nu poti, s-a facut un compromis si s-a implementat cum e acum.

[Kingy]

Da, dar in acelasi timp si motoarele V8 in ziua de azi au tehnologie pentru a dezactiva 2-4 cilindri cand nu e nevoie de ei

De peste douajde ani exista chestia asta Americancele asa au inca de pe atunci.